Glaring Problem With a Particular Tech skill:#313

Hello I’m quite new when it comes to Rivals/Melee type platformers and I’m learing all about what particular tech skills you can do in melee and also rivals. Upon doing such I came accross a somewhat glaring problem from first glance at least. At first I thought there’s a lot of people who are skilled at this tech skill because teching it must be hard but I suppose i got it wrong.

When it comes to Amsah Tech in this game I noticed this technique makes it virtually Impossible to miss a tech by simply holding Down on the contorl stick and holding L or R.

For example, I do remember a specfic change that made smash attacks break floor hugging. This change makes it so that you can get hard punished for putting in an intentional smash attack at lets say, a landing or maybe a tech chase into a smash attack. apparently they can just hold shield and down with an infinite buffer window and tech virtually anything.

Is this intentional? I’m questioning it because the devs made an exclusive change to combat this kind of thing yet with the addition of Amsah Tech you can potiontally be extremely plus.

Pressing shield buffers a tech for 20 frames, which burn during hitpause. After that, you’re locked out of teching for 20 frames.
Tech has to be timed and the stronger the attack, the harder it is to do.

This can be counterplayed by using a quick move like a falling aerial, or Olympia Dtilt, which will allow you to recover faster than your opponent out of tech and you’ll have time for a punish

I wish i could reply directly but I cant so I’ll just post a comment. Let’s assume the buffer window is what you said. (it’s not) Unfortunately, moves virtually never hit 20 frames of hitpause in this game conviently. The hardest move to get hit by is like claren neutral B and I guess her moves has 20+ frames of hitpause when you tipper or use some specials. So you’re right about literally one charecter. But unfortunately you can time a tech because the hitpause is so long.

As for the falling aerial/olympia dtilt thing I fail to see these options working more than 10% of the time after you hit anyone with it for the first time.

It’s 20 frames, man, just test it

I’m not ignorant, I labbed it already. And okay, it is defnintely 20 frames of hitpause.

Even on regular moves, I’m not sure if there’s any that has more than 20 frames of hit pause.

“Let’s assume the buffer window is what you said (it’s not)”
It is. It’s 20 frames. There’s no excuse to be ignorent about this.

Yeah I get it I was wrong. Yet I still gave a perfect example. Stop ignoring the part where there’s virtually no move that has 20+ frames of hitpause please. Oh please tell me how I’m wrong on that too if you’d like.

So if you think it through, you have to

1. Press the shield input before you get hit, meaning doing so reactively is hard
2. Make sure you cut it as close as possible to avoid having the part carved out of the middle of that buffer overlap the other end

It’s more difficult in practice than it seems to be.

However, I am in agreement that if you can do it consistently, it trivializes high damage gameplay in the same way as ledge techs by allowing you to avoid killing blows so long as you’re close to the wall or floor. I’ve also pushed for putting some kind of cap on it, either in terms of knockback or damage. Getting your information correct is important, because it allows you to advocate for changes that make sense.

To the people saying it’s a 20 frame buffer window without any intricacies-

First, I’d like to say that so long as knockdown is caused there is a perfect option select between floorhug and asmah tech against a majority of moves. (That includes vs a number of smash attacks which makes them needlessly punishable at times, especially at low %)-

Effective use is to do a wavedash into your opponent or an aerial that has little lag: So, as long as you hold down + shield you can >AUTOMATICALLY< amsah tech. This essentially allows you to automatically tech and ignore having to time anything. Which would be okay if those 20 frames were simply just. But considering you have 2 extra frames DURING hitpause that makes it way more lenient that it should be (It’s 1 in melee iirc.). At that point, it would technically mean you can abuse this at any time because of the amount of frames is consistent for neutral. As for the 2 extra frames I speak of… it says this on dragdown, you can see that it says after the third OR later frame of hitpause does tech lockout start. IF we’re going to act smart about this then it doesn’t matter if the buffer window is 20 frames. You can easily and safely reset your buffer window by covering yourself with another move. Amsah teching ALSO resets the window by the way for those that don’t know. This practically creates a perfect AGGRESSIVE and OPPRESSIVE defense when combined with floorhugging and allows one to play ignorantly if they may like to do.

https://dragdown.wiki/wiki/RoA2/System_Mechanics/Knockdown#Teching

Either way, because of how the buffer system works with teching, and I’ve even personally tested it myself: if one were to wavedash in and hold down + shield and get hit… more often than not that means you should have a TECHNICAL 20(+2 if timed for hitpause X if previously teched and etc…) frame window for floorhug + automatic amsah tech option select. I’d say there’s no frames or intervals where you can actively try to find a time to bypass this strategy. This amsah tech is also what allows certain characters to have INSANE survivablity due to sticking to the stage so easily, even more so if they have little end lag, have tons of mobility and or are fast fallers. Which nobody will say outloud… so to miss amsah tech you would specifically have to manually “try” to tech during frame 1-2 of the first few frames of hitpause. Which isn’t realistic and to add is not how people play the game itself, people buffer these options ahead of time and then cover theirselves. So specifically as I stated: >wavedashing and low lag aerials< means consistently one can amsah tech till eventually outside of the % window (which is suffering for a lot of characters to deal with depending on their kit) on top of this it makes a number of smash attacks punishable for no good reason even though a buff was specifically done to smash attacks to beat floorhug. But if breaking floorhug with a smash attack gets you punished anyway due to amsah tech, then the buff does little to nothing. So it sorta puts things back to square one on that part. There’s just a lot of problems that revolve over the same issues simply because floorhugging in a technical sense… makes no sense based on how long it lasts and enables crazier possiblities through amsah tech. It changes the game entirely since it switches focus from dealing with floorhug and then playing around it for a combo, to… dealing with floorhug AND amsah tech to force you to tech chase AND THEN attempt a combo. Which all just reduces total damage output for a lot of the cast and makes things I’d say a tad bit cringe. Aside such things… personally speaking, I don’t think there’s an effective way to do anything about amsah tech being abused so easily due to how the tech buffer system works and as well how floorhug is, it just sounds too easy to break the entire game by accident by messing with either of these things, It would be easier to simply focus on balancing the characters themselves than that if I’m to be quite honest. At best a poor suggestion would be to change the buffer tech window to that of smash 4’s tech window. (8 frames buffer window with 30 frame penalty and can’t be inputted during hitlag.) But even that just doesn’t sound like it’d land well. It’s really hard to think of a good teching system that’s natural and isn’t abuseable without outright just gutting it.

Holy yap

Anyway amsah tech is easy I do it all the time